tashlinfan44
2020-06-07T15:53:36Z
Originally Posted by: WaltWiz1901 

Originally Posted by: Thad Komorowski 

Have you noticed these have had the grain flattened out of them too? The color looks ok on HOT CROSS BUNNY (nothing like my IB Tech, I'm afraid, and with RABBIT EVERY MONDAY, there's clearly Fred Ladd level revisionism), for example, and the level of clarity is at the insane level of the Famous Popeyes where it looks as though you can lift the cels off. But I noticed not one bit of grain. Very disconcerting if they're pulling that Disney shit now.


What exactly do you mean by that, Thad?
Originally Posted by: Leviathan 

The Scooby Doo: Where Are You set and the Batman: The Animated Series set were pretty blatantly de-grained. Both were put out by WHV proper, not the WAC.

The Tex Avery cartoons will probably end up looking OK, since it's the WAC. But if the Bugs cartoons are part of the project Jerry is working on for WHV, uh oh.

Is it worth raising a stink now and try and get the attention of the right people? Or has that ship sailed?


The Batman set at least consisted of new restorations, was on twelve BD-50s, had slightly higher bitrates, and had lossless stereo audio as opposed to the Scooby-Doo set, which was on four BD-25s, had incredibly low bitrates, and featured lossy dual mono audio (as opposed to something along the lines of the lossless single mono soundtracks on the DFE Dr. Seuss discs from 2012). Scooby was restored in HD starting in 2003 for the DVD sets that came out the following year and 2007 (unfortunately, from what I've heard, the transfers were interlaced and consequently plagued with combing artifacts) and the unfiltered masters are available on Amazon Prime, but the Blu-ray transfers are severely filtered to compensate for approximately ten episodes each being compressed onto four single-layer discs.

I doubt Warner cares very much about quality control on their physical media titles anymore, but it may be worth a try...



I think, by Fred Ladd level revisionism, he means that some cartoons are getting treatments similar to how Fred Ladd would have treated them when he had some B&W Looney Tunes redrawn in the 1960s.....yuck. Shit like totally screwing up the colors of even the most basic characters/objects...Daffy = brown, Sand = pink, water = green, stuff like that.
Mesterius
2020-06-07T19:17:23Z
Originally Posted by: tashlinfan44 

I think, by Fred Ladd level revisionism, he means that some cartoons are getting treatments similar to how Fred Ladd would have treated them when he had some B&W Looney Tunes redrawn in the 1960s.....yuck. Shit like totally screwing up the colors of even the most basic characters/objects...Daffy = brown, Sand = pink, water = green, stuff like that.



Daffy = BROWN? Seriously?

(You got a screenshot of this? 😛 )
tashlinfan44
2020-06-08T01:34:02Z
Originally Posted by: Mesterius 

Originally Posted by: tashlinfan44 

I think, by Fred Ladd level revisionism, he means that some cartoons are getting treatments similar to how Fred Ladd would have treated them when he had some B&W Looney Tunes redrawn in the 1960s.....yuck. Shit like totally screwing up the colors of even the most basic characters/objects...Daffy = brown, Sand = pink, water = green, stuff like that.



Daffy = BROWN? Seriously?

(You got a screenshot of this? 😛 )



Here ya go. It’s not entirely brown, but it’s what I found. Bonus points if you can name the cartoon! I bless your soul for not knowing the color schemes of these monstrosities :)

WARNING: Seeing this colors in this image may cause violent nausea, diarrhea, and death due to disgust. You. Have. Been. Warned.

https://paste.pics/f95df...e52d684b50a81b48bd09f294 
WaltWiz1901
2020-06-08T05:17:44Z
Originally Posted by: tashlinfan44 

Bonus points if you can name the cartoon! I bless your soul for not knowing the color schemes of these monstrosities :)


The cartoon is Porky Pig's Feat. I couldn't even bear to take a closer look at the photo...

I'm beginning to get what Thad meant, but as far as I can tell, the greener stove is pretty much the only major "change" I can spot (and it sure doesn't look as extreme as the Fred Ladd redrawns). Are there any more?
Leviathan
2020-06-08T13:49:04Z
To be honest, the de-graining is a bigger issue than the color timing. We've been bitching about how the colors should look since the Golden Collection days.
Mesterius
2020-06-08T13:54:00Z
Originally Posted by: tashlinfan44 

Originally Posted by: Mesterius 

Originally Posted by: tashlinfan44 

I think, by Fred Ladd level revisionism, he means that some cartoons are getting treatments similar to how Fred Ladd would have treated them when he had some B&W Looney Tunes redrawn in the 1960s.....yuck. Shit like totally screwing up the colors of even the most basic characters/objects...Daffy = brown, Sand = pink, water = green, stuff like that.



Daffy = BROWN? Seriously?

(You got a screenshot of this? 😛 )



Here ya go. It’s not entirely brown, but it’s what I found. Bonus points if you can name the cartoon! I bless your soul for not knowing the color schemes of these monstrosities :)

WARNING: Seeing this colors in this image may cause violent nausea, diarrhea, and death due to disgust. You. Have. Been. Warned.

https://paste.pics/f95df...e52d684b50a81b48bd09f294 



Oh, okay, so you meant Daffy is brown in the old Fred Ladd recolors. I thought you meant he actually had that color in some of Warner's modern-day remasters.

Anyway, I can kind of see what you mean, but Daffy does at least look more black than brown in that screenshot. Maybe the brownish hue has to do with the age of the video print?
tashlinfan44
2020-06-09T01:56:04Z
Originally Posted by: Mesterius 

Originally Posted by: tashlinfan44 

Originally Posted by: Mesterius 

Originally Posted by: tashlinfan44 

I think, by Fred Ladd level revisionism, he means that some cartoons are getting treatments similar to how Fred Ladd would have treated them when he had some B&W Looney Tunes redrawn in the 1960s.....yuck. Shit like totally screwing up the colors of even the most basic characters/objects...Daffy = brown, Sand = pink, water = green, stuff like that.



Daffy = BROWN? Seriously?

(You got a screenshot of this? 😛 )



Here ya go. It’s not entirely brown, but it’s what I found. Bonus points if you can name the cartoon! I bless your soul for not knowing the color schemes of these monstrosities :)

WARNING: Seeing this colors in this image may cause violent nausea, diarrhea, and death due to disgust. You. Have. Been. Warned.

https://paste.pics/f95df...e52d684b50a81b48bd09f294 



Oh, okay, so you meant Daffy is brown in the old Fred Ladd recolors. I thought you meant he actually had that color in some of Warner's modern-day remasters.

Anyway, I can kind of see what you mean, but Daffy does at least look more black than brown in that screenshot. Maybe the brownish hue has to do with the age of the video print?



It does have more to do with the print quality, but it's something along the lines of brown, right.....?

Also, I don't know if I'm allowed to plug my own Twitter on here, but I just started a Looney Tunes related Twitter in the same vein of accounts like "pig & duck nip-n-tuck" and "tiny crow". Come check it out!
https://twitter.com/clampettwannabe 
anonymuos
2020-06-15T12:29:18Z
Combining the Blu-Ray, Amazon HD and HBO Max HD releases of Tom and Jerry, this is the current situation now:

38 (Mouse Cleaning), 55 (Casanova Cat) - not available in HD - these are the 2 censored ones
87 (Downhearted Duckling), 93 (Designs on Jerry) - not available in HD yet

89 (Touché, Pussy Cat!) - This one was produced originally in Fullscreen for 4:3 TV broadcast (now purchasable on LaserDisc) as well as widescreen Cinemascope (which was transferred to DVD). However the "HD" version has ruined this one by cropping the CinemaScope version on both sides to make it 1080p "fullscreen" (4:3)! Huge amount of picture is lost from certain sides. Best to stick with DVD/SD version for more complete picture. I have it in both original true fullscreen (LaserDisc) and CinemaScope DVD and can confirm the "HD" version is bad crop of CinemaScope (worst of both worlds).

Incidentally, the 3 others which were produced in both fullscreen and CinemaScope (Pet Peeve, Southbound Duckling & Pup on a Picnic) are now transferred in HD correctly in CinemaScope ratio.

Actually for the first time, I also got to see "Pup on a Picnic" in CinemaScope, since on the Spotlight Collection DVD, it was cropped to 16:9.

Now the problem with 4 of the widescreen ones:

99 (The Egg and Jerry which is a widescreen remake of 41 Hatch Up Your Troubles)
103 (Blue Cat Blues)
108 (Mucho Mouse)
114 (Tot Watchers)

These 4 are widescreen CinemaScope on DVD which are "upgraded" to 1080p by cropping sides of DVD CinemaScope version to 16:9. You lose picture on both sides. So again, DVD version has more complete picture.

So in total 9 cartoons are screwed up - either not true HD or with improper aspect ratio and loss of picture due to cropping.
WaltWiz1901
2020-06-15T13:06:45Z
Originally Posted by: anonymuos 

89 (Touché, Pussy Cat!) - This one was produced originally in Fullscreen for 4:3 TV broadcast (now purchasable on LaserDisc) as well as widescreen Cinemascope (which was transferred to DVD). However the "HD" version has ruined this one by cropping the CinemaScope version on both sides to make it 1080p "fullscreen" (4:3)! Huge amount of picture is lost from certain sides. Best to stick with DVD/SD version for more complete picture. I have it in both original true fullscreen (LaserDisc) and CinemaScope DVD and can confirm the "HD" version is bad crop of CinemaScope (worst of both worlds). Incidentally, the 3 others which were produced in both fullscreen and CinemaScope (Pet Peeve, Southbound Duckling & Pup on a Picnic) are now transferred in HD correctly in CinemaScope ratio.


Does the HBO Max transfer of Touché have a stereo mix or a mono mix? The Spotlight Collection transfer has the former, but most other releases are (unfortunately) stuck with the latter.

Weirdly, while Pet Peeve is apparently in mono on DVD, it's in stereo on the Boomerang app. Does the latter ring true for HBO Max as well?
anonymuos
2020-06-15T14:22:07Z
Originally Posted by: WaltWiz1901 

Does the HBO Max transfer of Touché have a stereo mix or a mono mix? The Spotlight Collection transfer has the former, but most other releases are (unfortunately) stuck with the latter.

Weirdly, while Pet Peeve is apparently in mono on DVD, it's in stereo on the Boomerang app. Does the latter ring true for HBO Max as well?

I actually only have the rips of the shorts from HBO Max, Amazon or Blu-Ray. I no longer have subscription to any although I had earlier. The rips say AC3 2.0 so yes stereo.
Leviathan
2020-06-15T18:42:04Z
I just checked Chicken Jitters and did some comparisons. While there are some picture quality quibbles, it definitely isn't either the version from Porky 101 or the one on Boomerang. The Max version is sharper and isn't as cropped on the sides, for one.
WaltWiz1901
2020-06-16T13:58:16Z
Originally Posted by: Leviathan 

I just checked Chicken Jitters and did some comparisons. While there are some picture quality quibbles, it definitely isn't either the version from Porky 101 or the one on Boomerang. The Max version is sharper and isn't as cropped on the sides, for one.


It also has its original opening cue, as you previously mentioned.

Somebody over on the Looney Tunes Wiki Discord server is saying that Hold the Lion, Please is an upscale of a previous master. Is that true, or...?
anonymuos
2020-06-17T07:36:44Z
I reached out to HBO Max about fixing the 5 Tom and Jerry Hanna-Barbera shorts in the incorrect aspect ratio of 16:9 or 4:3 and including the rest which are not available in HD. They replied saying that "For this to go on our record officially so we may pass it along to our team, please provide the email address associated with your subscription. Otherwise it won't be documented properly." WTF what do I do now? Is anyone here with HBO Max subscription willing to privately send me their email which I can send to them? I never had HBO Max subscription, It is not available in my region and will not be for years. I obtained it via Web-DL rips.
wiley207
2020-06-17T17:44:42Z
Originally Posted by: anonymuos 

Combining the Blu-Ray, Amazon HD and HBO Max HD releases of Tom and Jerry, this is the current situation now:

38 (Mouse Cleaning), 55 (Casanova Cat) - not available in HD - these are the 2 censored ones



Yep, Tom and Jerry's equivalent to the Censored Eleven... in this case, the Censored Two!
Thad Komorowski
2020-06-18T21:03:35Z
FYI, the copy of HARE SPLITTER on ROMANCE ON THE HIGH SEAS is indeed remastered, but presented in SD with seriously bad interlacing/ghosting/artifacting, so it looks like shit. Not sure who was asleep at the switch on this one. (The movie itself looks great.)

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Mesterius
2020-06-18T21:34:52Z
Originally Posted by: Thad Komorowski 

FYI, the copy of HARE SPLITTER on ROMANCE ON THE HIGH SEAS is indeed remastered, but presented in SD with seriously bad interlacing/ghosting/artifacting, so it looks like shit. Not sure who was asleep at the switch on this one. (The movie itself looks great.)

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Yikes. And this copy really is from a new HD restoration? There's no chance it's an older video print?
Thad Komorowski
2020-06-18T21:42:13Z
Well, uh, it's got the original opening title, so uh, yeah, this is a new transfer just badly encoded and presented. Color correction matches the flat look of the ones on HBO Max, too.
Mesterius
2020-06-18T22:51:22Z
Originally Posted by: Thad Komorowski 

Well, uh, it's got the original opening title, so uh, yeah, this is a new transfer just badly encoded and presented. Color correction matches the flat look of the ones on HBO Max, too.



Sorry, I'm not enough of an expert on this to know which Looney Tunes cartoons I've probably never seen (this one was never on any Golden or Platinum Collection as far as I can tell) have only been available with reissue titles until now. Hence my question.
Leviathan
2020-06-18T23:22:09Z
Christ almighty.

It should be shocking that the WAC would drop the ball THIS badly, but they're after all the same people who did Porky Pig 101. I'm genuinely at a loss as to how a Blu-Ray in 2020 can have interlacing issues.

I dread the set that's supposedly coming out with these new restorations. Who knows what kind of presentation issues THAT'S going to have (and the excuses certain people will make for it, a la Porky 101).
Mesterius
2020-06-19T00:02:31Z
Originally Posted by: Leviathan 

I'm genuinely at a loss as to how a Blu-Ray in 2020 can have interlacing issues.



Simple enough. You take an interlaced SD video master (presumably in MPEG-2 format), convert it straight to H.264 and throw it on the Blu-ray.

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